Yes, but when you read the material of White Nationalists and Uber-Christians, they have a special hatred for Jews.
They LOOOOOVE Israel. That's because they want to see the big "Armageddon" battle take place there, heralding the Second Coming.
But they HATE Jews. We're a bunch of money-grubbing pawnbrokers in caftans who control the banks, the press, Hollywood, the media, the pornography industry, and are also Communists and the spawn of Satan (per the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion."
I swear, if I was that powerful, I wouldn't be a municipal drudge in Newark. I'd own mansions in New Zealand, San Francisco, New York, and have a personal jet that could cross the oceans.
As a Jew, I'm astonished that Christians fought an unbelievably bloody war in Europe for 30 years over whether or not a wafer IS the body of Christ or REPRESENTS the body of Christ.
But then, they dedicated several hundred years to the Crusades before calling that fiasco off.
You are 100% right. That I stand with Israel sign outside his office made me nauseous. I don’t trust him or any of them with regard to Jews. I wouldn’t stand near any of them next to an oven.
The guy who wrote the Constitution would like a word with Mikey and his fellow christian nationalists:
'Religion and government both exist in greater purity the more they are kept apart.' --James Madison
Madison also pointed out that any government that can set up christianity as the state religion can also decide which version of christianity is only accepted one. We should all be on our guard about elected pols who want to do away with 'all this separation of church and state junk.'
And the idea of some of the least educated and historically illiterate people in Congress (I’m talking about you, Boebert, MTG, etc) calling the “separation of church and state” a “myth” is totally ludicrous, given the exact wording of the first phrase of the First Amendment.
These people do not appear to either read or have even rudimentary comprehension skills: not only was this enumerated in Jefferson’s letter to Danford Baptist, but the Treaty of Tripoli makes it QUITE clear that the Founders did NOT view the USA as a “Christian nation”.
Not to mention that James Madison vetoed two bills for violating the First Amendment's Establishment Clause - one that would have funded a church in DC and the other that would provided federal land for use of the Baptist Church. Madison said, 'no way' to both.
Any Christian group, Catholics, Mormon, Episcopal and others not part of these fundamentalists - that supports these folks would find themselves to be out groups just like Jewish people; their rights would be trampled too.
Mormons don't subscribe to traditional christianity in many respects. For example, most traditional christians don't believe 'As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.' That's considered heresy.
That's just one example of the many basic doctrinal differences between mormonism and traditional christianity. Trad christians don't believe there are three different heavens, they don't believe that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers, or that god was once a man with a physical body, and on and on and on. Traditional christians believe in the existence of hell, mormons don't. They don't believe the gospel had to be 'restored'. The list is endless. That's why many traditional christians reject LDS as christians.
If mormons want to call themselves christians, they can do so. If traditional christians reject that claim, they can do so.
They certainly would find the words and exhortations of the actual Jesus of Nazareth to be strongly in opposition to their belief system, that’s certainly the case!
What ever happened to feeding the poor, clothing the naked, welcoming your enemies, etc? And what ever happened to “give all that you have to the poor and follow me”? That wasn’t an allegory when Jesus said it: he meant that quite literally when he said it to the “rich young ruler” in Luke 18:22.
And they conveniently ignore Matt. 25:45-46. “Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.”
If there’s one thing we know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Jesus had NO patience for hypocrites. See also casting out the money hangers in the Temple...
I am Jewish, and I am afraid - afraid in a way I have never been, that after these Christian nationalists come for their "enemies", they will expand that list to once again include the Jews, along with anyone else who doesn't fit their definition of "one of us", a definition that, historically, has been restricted every time it has come up.
AND even if they could rid the country of their perceived 'enemies' (POC, LGBTQ folks, liberals, uppity women) they would immediately turn on each other for not being ideologically pure enough, white enough, zealous enough, masculine enough.
In fact, I believe they're ALREADY turning on each other, we see it every day.
The only reason Christian nationalists support Israel is to hasten “Armageddon” in the Middle East and the nuclear destruction that will kill all non-believers and herald the Second Coming of Christ.
I think you are all overplaying “Christian Nationalists) there really is no such group.
If any of you have EVER studied the bible, you would not classify Christians as controlling and angry and hateful. Especially calling out a flag that honors God and Heaven. Do Y’all think that flying the Palestinian flag is more peaceful, and not a threat??
Im not going to lecture all of you liberals on Christianity, because in the end , you will see for yourselves. God loves us all and any of you who want to repent and turn from evil, and ask Jesus Christ into your heart, will be with Him in heaven, those who dont will not. Its your choice not God’s.
I think you are focusing on the wrong definition. "Christian Nationalists", by definition, believe that America is defined by Christianity, and that they have the right, and the responsibility, to impose that belief on the entire population. That their goals are counter to both the Constitution and the actual definition of "Christian" does not bother them; they are evangelicals, intent on proselytizing their "truth" to everyone around them.
I'm not going to lecture you on Christianity, because in the end, you will see that using the word "Christian" in the name "Christian Nationalist" is designed to lull people into complacency, thinking that it is a benign organization. As far as repenting - Jesus was Jewish, and was very clear that the laws of his religion should be obeyed, and members of the Jewish faith respected - certainly not preached at for retaining Judaism.
Sen. Barry Goldwater, never known as a liberal, said this:
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. Said in November 1994, as quoted in John Dean, Conservatives Without Conscience (2006)
Thank you for an excellent and exceptionally well crafted treatment of a vitally important problem confronting all of America today. The many citizen supporters who think that this is the way to go, quite simply do not realize or understand the Fascistic dangers inherent in this thoroughly mistaken and warped perspective of the early history of our country or the simple fact that "Biblical Thinking" is wholly unprovable, untenable, and unworthy of the original intentions of the founding Fathers; and more to the point a detestable intrusion on the consciouses, liberties, and rights of all Americans.
I read it in 1988. It f%#£ng terrified me and there is nothing that could make me watch the series. Now I have to watch it playing out in real life. I’m “lucky” to be living outside the hellhole that the US has become, but I have a son at Columbia and other loved ones that I’m beyond terrified for. I’ve always thought as a Jewish American (and now Swede) I had three places I would always feel and be safe in. Now I have one (maybe). 💔💔💔
Funny, just this morning I was pondering what policies would be embraced by Christian Nationalists if government indeed took its policies from their vision of Christianity. I mean, they are fascists so we have historical examples. Obviously, women’s rights would be rolled back--abortion rights, contraceptives, protection against harassment and discrimination in employment and education, protection from sexual exploitation and rape. Of course, LGBTQ folk and POC would lose rights and protections. Public education would become indoctrination in right-wing Christian nuttery--more bible study, less science, history whitewashed, leaders exalted. I think we would see a dismantling of government programs to provide for the common good--social security, medicare, welfare, etc--maybe such funding would be rechannelled to church groups, and we would see corruption and graft on a huge scale. Foreign policy would surrender to Putin. I think the most interesting--"interesting"-- thing to watch would be how the government would institutionalize toxic masculinity. Strength and aggressiveness, the southern Honor culture would be glorified...think of those bozos in Congress this week...and laws would protect the right of the powerful to prey on the weak. It is a frightening hot mess of cruelty and delusion.
We already have corruption and graft on a huge scale, because of privatization. Anybody who takescgets a dime of tax dollars should have their books and correspondence open to the public, but they aren't.
One can hope that we are witnessing the last harah, the last hail Mary's...that demographics- diversity will save democracy in America...Christian fascists won't disappear but be displaced in the coming elections. We saw that in the recent state election....Most Americans are not extremists.
The clown show in Congress no doubt repulses most Americans...but "it ain't over until it's over" And it ain't going to end pretty.
The American Taliban is sadly not just alive and well, but in nearly full control of the GQP (and many states). Ignorance and arrogance all in the name of "god". Scary.
"As the views of Johnson and his fellow Christian nationalists are ever more marginalized in the larger American culture, they are making their last stand within one of our two major political parties.".
This is the bit we need to cling onto... This is the last ditch grasp for power by a dying ideology. Yes, it's especially virulent right now because it's fighting a desperate rear-guard action against its inevitable demise. Every secular and demographic trend is against them in the long term, which is WHY they no longer believe in Democracy, because they can WIN in a democracy anymore.
We just need to stay strong for a few more years until they implode under the weight of history and their own greed and incompetence.
This is not to say we should be complacent or to weaken in our opposition to their assault on democracy, but we can take heart in knowing that, long term, we will win.
Dumpster is the least religious person out there ! He only let's them around him for the money they draw in and he has the same racist and bigoted ideals as they do !! His beliefs deal with how much money he can grift and total loyalty to him only not any rules or laws that protect marginalized persons . Religion has caused more wars and endangered more lives then anything else as one Religion thinks that they are better than anyone else's! No , there definitely needs to be a separation of church and state ! And these religious zealots like Mom for liberty should not have any say in the banning of books unless the bible is banned! They should not have any say in what courses should be taught in school and no one should be allowed to remove the history of another ethnic group because you don't want white people to feel guilt !! It is ludicrous that they have so much money from wealthy donors to squash the rights of others because you don't like who they love or how they pray or live !! But God forbid you try to fight back against their ideals , they play victim !
Being Jewish, when I hear this drivel, I know what comes next...or last.
They come for us.
In a "Final Solution to the Jewish Question."
It's not just about Jews it's about everyone.
Yes, but when you read the material of White Nationalists and Uber-Christians, they have a special hatred for Jews.
They LOOOOOVE Israel. That's because they want to see the big "Armageddon" battle take place there, heralding the Second Coming.
But they HATE Jews. We're a bunch of money-grubbing pawnbrokers in caftans who control the banks, the press, Hollywood, the media, the pornography industry, and are also Communists and the spawn of Satan (per the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion."
I swear, if I was that powerful, I wouldn't be a municipal drudge in Newark. I'd own mansions in New Zealand, San Francisco, New York, and have a personal jet that could cross the oceans.
They hate everyone who does not conform to their religion.
Yup.
I'd like to see what they do when all their mutual enemies are dead.
They'll turn on each other.
Probably. More likely one fanatic will try to be God and form a splinter religion and then there will be war.
Happily I am an atheist seen and read about to many wars of religion to know there is NO God. If there is a god he's very mean.
All we can do now is to try to be nice to one another!
It's tough but works.
As a Jew, I'm astonished that Christians fought an unbelievably bloody war in Europe for 30 years over whether or not a wafer IS the body of Christ or REPRESENTS the body of Christ.
But then, they dedicated several hundred years to the Crusades before calling that fiasco off.
“They hate everyone who does not conform to their religion.”
Of course. Just like the main figure in their religion said they should in his Sermon on the Mount.
You are 100% right. That I stand with Israel sign outside his office made me nauseous. I don’t trust him or any of them with regard to Jews. I wouldn’t stand near any of them next to an oven.
He and his buddies probably sit in their club after hours, nursing highballs, and making "kike" and "sheeny" jokes.
The guy who wrote the Constitution would like a word with Mikey and his fellow christian nationalists:
'Religion and government both exist in greater purity the more they are kept apart.' --James Madison
Madison also pointed out that any government that can set up christianity as the state religion can also decide which version of christianity is only accepted one. We should all be on our guard about elected pols who want to do away with 'all this separation of church and state junk.'
And the idea of some of the least educated and historically illiterate people in Congress (I’m talking about you, Boebert, MTG, etc) calling the “separation of church and state” a “myth” is totally ludicrous, given the exact wording of the first phrase of the First Amendment.
These people do not appear to either read or have even rudimentary comprehension skills: not only was this enumerated in Jefferson’s letter to Danford Baptist, but the Treaty of Tripoli makes it QUITE clear that the Founders did NOT view the USA as a “Christian nation”.
Not to mention that James Madison vetoed two bills for violating the First Amendment's Establishment Clause - one that would have funded a church in DC and the other that would provided federal land for use of the Baptist Church. Madison said, 'no way' to both.
Any Christian group, Catholics, Mormon, Episcopal and others not part of these fundamentalists - that supports these folks would find themselves to be out groups just like Jewish people; their rights would be trampled too.
Absolutely. And you count the Jehovah's Witnesses, the 7th Day Adventists, and on and on and on......
Mormons are not Christians FYI
They don't believe that Christ was the Son of God? That's news to me and my Mormon friends...
Mormons don't subscribe to traditional christianity in many respects. For example, most traditional christians don't believe 'As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.' That's considered heresy.
But is that enough to disqualify them as Christians?
That's just one example of the many basic doctrinal differences between mormonism and traditional christianity. Trad christians don't believe there are three different heavens, they don't believe that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers, or that god was once a man with a physical body, and on and on and on. Traditional christians believe in the existence of hell, mormons don't. They don't believe the gospel had to be 'restored'. The list is endless. That's why many traditional christians reject LDS as christians.
If mormons want to call themselves christians, they can do so. If traditional christians reject that claim, they can do so.
"They never were terribly good at history, nor do they ever let facts get in the way of their own beliefs."
Nor are they actually Christian, which would indicate a belief in the teachings of Christ.
They are, effectively, anti-Christ in their beliefs and practices.
They certainly would find the words and exhortations of the actual Jesus of Nazareth to be strongly in opposition to their belief system, that’s certainly the case!
What ever happened to feeding the poor, clothing the naked, welcoming your enemies, etc? And what ever happened to “give all that you have to the poor and follow me”? That wasn’t an allegory when Jesus said it: he meant that quite literally when he said it to the “rich young ruler” in Luke 18:22.
And they conveniently ignore Matt. 25:45-46. “Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.”
If there’s one thing we know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Jesus had NO patience for hypocrites. See also casting out the money hangers in the Temple...
Should have been “money changers”....
I am Jewish, and I am afraid - afraid in a way I have never been, that after these Christian nationalists come for their "enemies", they will expand that list to once again include the Jews, along with anyone else who doesn't fit their definition of "one of us", a definition that, historically, has been restricted every time it has come up.
Agreed.
AND even if they could rid the country of their perceived 'enemies' (POC, LGBTQ folks, liberals, uppity women) they would immediately turn on each other for not being ideologically pure enough, white enough, zealous enough, masculine enough.
In fact, I believe they're ALREADY turning on each other, we see it every day.
You are so un informed
You are absolutely right.
The only reason Christian nationalists support Israel is to hasten “Armageddon” in the Middle East and the nuclear destruction that will kill all non-believers and herald the Second Coming of Christ.
Being Jewish, I feel the same way.
I think you are all overplaying “Christian Nationalists) there really is no such group.
If any of you have EVER studied the bible, you would not classify Christians as controlling and angry and hateful. Especially calling out a flag that honors God and Heaven. Do Y’all think that flying the Palestinian flag is more peaceful, and not a threat??
Im not going to lecture all of you liberals on Christianity, because in the end , you will see for yourselves. God loves us all and any of you who want to repent and turn from evil, and ask Jesus Christ into your heart, will be with Him in heaven, those who dont will not. Its your choice not God’s.
I think you are focusing on the wrong definition. "Christian Nationalists", by definition, believe that America is defined by Christianity, and that they have the right, and the responsibility, to impose that belief on the entire population. That their goals are counter to both the Constitution and the actual definition of "Christian" does not bother them; they are evangelicals, intent on proselytizing their "truth" to everyone around them.
I'm not going to lecture you on Christianity, because in the end, you will see that using the word "Christian" in the name "Christian Nationalist" is designed to lull people into complacency, thinking that it is a benign organization. As far as repenting - Jesus was Jewish, and was very clear that the laws of his religion should be obeyed, and members of the Jewish faith respected - certainly not preached at for retaining Judaism.
Yawn. Maybe we’ll all find out or maybe we won’t.
Sen. Barry Goldwater, never known as a liberal, said this:
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. Said in November 1994, as quoted in John Dean, Conservatives Without Conscience (2006)
We can't have democracy without compromise, they don't want either.
Sounds like them and Netanyahu and Hamas, etc.
Thank you for an excellent and exceptionally well crafted treatment of a vitally important problem confronting all of America today. The many citizen supporters who think that this is the way to go, quite simply do not realize or understand the Fascistic dangers inherent in this thoroughly mistaken and warped perspective of the early history of our country or the simple fact that "Biblical Thinking" is wholly unprovable, untenable, and unworthy of the original intentions of the founding Fathers; and more to the point a detestable intrusion on the consciouses, liberties, and rights of all Americans.
I am sure we have all read or watched "The Handmaid's Tale." It is being played out before us in real life.
I read it in 1988. It f%#£ng terrified me and there is nothing that could make me watch the series. Now I have to watch it playing out in real life. I’m “lucky” to be living outside the hellhole that the US has become, but I have a son at Columbia and other loved ones that I’m beyond terrified for. I’ve always thought as a Jewish American (and now Swede) I had three places I would always feel and be safe in. Now I have one (maybe). 💔💔💔
Scary stuff! I don’t want America to become the narrow minded, bigoted world these Christian nationalists are trying to impose!
Become? Where have you been sweetie? We’re already there.
Sweetie? Don’t patronize me.
I disagree, we are not ‘there’ yet, but the Christian nationalists are certainly trying to take us in that direction.
Funny, just this morning I was pondering what policies would be embraced by Christian Nationalists if government indeed took its policies from their vision of Christianity. I mean, they are fascists so we have historical examples. Obviously, women’s rights would be rolled back--abortion rights, contraceptives, protection against harassment and discrimination in employment and education, protection from sexual exploitation and rape. Of course, LGBTQ folk and POC would lose rights and protections. Public education would become indoctrination in right-wing Christian nuttery--more bible study, less science, history whitewashed, leaders exalted. I think we would see a dismantling of government programs to provide for the common good--social security, medicare, welfare, etc--maybe such funding would be rechannelled to church groups, and we would see corruption and graft on a huge scale. Foreign policy would surrender to Putin. I think the most interesting--"interesting"-- thing to watch would be how the government would institutionalize toxic masculinity. Strength and aggressiveness, the southern Honor culture would be glorified...think of those bozos in Congress this week...and laws would protect the right of the powerful to prey on the weak. It is a frightening hot mess of cruelty and delusion.
We already have corruption and graft on a huge scale, because of privatization. Anybody who takescgets a dime of tax dollars should have their books and correspondence open to the public, but they aren't.
One can hope that we are witnessing the last harah, the last hail Mary's...that demographics- diversity will save democracy in America...Christian fascists won't disappear but be displaced in the coming elections. We saw that in the recent state election....Most Americans are not extremists.
The clown show in Congress no doubt repulses most Americans...but "it ain't over until it's over" And it ain't going to end pretty.
Join the Freedom From Religion Foundation, the best watch-dog organization in the U.S. for the separation of state and church.
“I'm tired of this separation of church and state junk that's not in the Constitution.”
Unsurprisingly Boebert skipped right over the 1st Amendment in her eagerness to misread the 2nd.
I find it quite rich that the first founding principle he claims to believe in is ‘individual freedom’
[unless you’re a woman, LBGTQ+, etc…right, Mike?]
The American Taliban is sadly not just alive and well, but in nearly full control of the GQP (and many states). Ignorance and arrogance all in the name of "god". Scary.
"As the views of Johnson and his fellow Christian nationalists are ever more marginalized in the larger American culture, they are making their last stand within one of our two major political parties.".
This is the bit we need to cling onto... This is the last ditch grasp for power by a dying ideology. Yes, it's especially virulent right now because it's fighting a desperate rear-guard action against its inevitable demise. Every secular and demographic trend is against them in the long term, which is WHY they no longer believe in Democracy, because they can WIN in a democracy anymore.
We just need to stay strong for a few more years until they implode under the weight of history and their own greed and incompetence.
This is not to say we should be complacent or to weaken in our opposition to their assault on democracy, but we can take heart in knowing that, long term, we will win.
Dumpster is the least religious person out there ! He only let's them around him for the money they draw in and he has the same racist and bigoted ideals as they do !! His beliefs deal with how much money he can grift and total loyalty to him only not any rules or laws that protect marginalized persons . Religion has caused more wars and endangered more lives then anything else as one Religion thinks that they are better than anyone else's! No , there definitely needs to be a separation of church and state ! And these religious zealots like Mom for liberty should not have any say in the banning of books unless the bible is banned! They should not have any say in what courses should be taught in school and no one should be allowed to remove the history of another ethnic group because you don't want white people to feel guilt !! It is ludicrous that they have so much money from wealthy donors to squash the rights of others because you don't like who they love or how they pray or live !! But God forbid you try to fight back against their ideals , they play victim !