What I want is to see Don Jr. be held accountable as a fellow drug addict with a dozen or more guns who poaches (probably illegally as well) since that's apparently reason for conservatives to get Big Mad 💢 about.
I agree. This should become a precedent. We should go after every person who lied on their application. Think how many guns we could get off the streets.
The right was never going to be happy with the verdict, no matter which way it went - apparently on the first day they were a hung jury. After the trial some of the jurors stated: "that they felt bad doing so and that the prosecution case seemed aimed 'as much to embarrass as it was to convict,'" or "That juror said that she "wasn't a fan of the prosecution," in large part because aspects of their case, such as highlighting a trove of evidence of drug addiction that far predated the gun purchase, seemed unnecessary even if they were trying to get a point across," and finally “In my opinion, this was a waste of taxpayer dollars,” she said. The juror added that she "didn't want to find him guilty" because the evidence showed "he needed help," but she ultimately voted to convict based on the application of relevant criminal law."
Hogwash. In EVERY one of Trump's four cases, grand juries of our peers saw the evidence and decided that there was enough evidence to warrant a number of felony indictments.
YOUR CHOICE was stripped from you whether to vote for a pussy-grabber that ALSO cheated on his wife while she was still nursing their infant son.
You should be outraged at Trump, not at the justice system.
The sentencing will further emphasize the contrast between the two cases. If Hunter Biden is sentenced to a full 21 months in prison while Donald Trump receives only probation or a suspended sentence, the perception of an injustice already perpetrated will be heightened considerably. If Hunter Biden's sentence were to be pronounced before July 11, there would almost certainly be a moment of breathless anticipation to see if Trump would likewise receive at least an appropriate sentence, rather than a slap on the wrist.
Michael Cohen was a first time offender and sentenced (in federal court) to 3 years for essentially the same crime as TFG was charged with in state court.
It seems the man who directed and benefited from Cohen’s crime should be sentenced (in state court) to AT LEAST the same amount of time, if only in part because he didn’t pled out (as Cohen did) and forced a trial to determine his guilt.
Also, TFG has violated his gag order at least 10 times. He continues to talk smack and violate his gag order which is still enforce to protect the jurors, court staff, the witnesses, and others. Most defendants are locked up after just one violation. TFG kept pushing the envelope and daring the judge to jail him. I appreciate why Judge Merchan didn’t lock him up during the trial — it would have delayed everything and been a hardship on the jury and others.
TFG has been found guilty and should be held accountable. No one is above the law.
" I don't give a f#$k about hunter because he isn't running for president. I didn't care about Trump's many frauds until he decided to run for president AND held himself out as somehow less scummy than HRC. "
There is no equivalence. NY indicts for this crime all the time. Apparently the fed rarely indicts for lying on a form gun or otherwise without some intervention first and they definitely don't indict when someone has back taxes that are paid with interest and penalties .
Hunter now has to live with his guilty verdict, politically motivated or not. We have to be ok with that because he is guilty.
But if we are forced to accept one, we , have to accept the other. Looking at you conservatives...
If Trump's attempt to hide his affairs failed it's possible he wouldn't have become president and he wouldn't have ever been protected by the same immunity which he now seeks. He hid his tax returns because he is a tax cheat, he paid off women because he did have affairs, he is running from the law for fraudulent business practices. Did him running for president accelerate or highlight his crimeyness, maybe. The law was going to be after him regardless.
Two years ago I would agree. Now, with an actual conviction, I still think there are two tiers. And Trump still benefits from the one for special people.
Anyone else would have been remanded after the 2nd set of violations of the gag order in place. at every step he has been afforded unusual leeway.
Yes, there are two tiers. Hearing Blanche argue facts not in the record, testifying for his client while performing direct or cross is wildly prejudicial.
I'm thinking the DA purposefully let some of that stuff go because they knew they had a strong case and it wouldn't matter. It was all smoke. They were right in the short term, let's see if them letting Trump and team have a long rope leads to overturning the verdict or not.
You write that Donald would have not been prosecuted had he not been running for President, but I believe the prosecutorial work on this began before he was a candidate.
Also, you left out what I want everyone, especially suburban women to remember, Donald’s case flowed from his effort to keep secret from suburban women that WHEN MELANIA HAD A BABY DONALD HAD SEX WITH STORMY D.
It is also worth noting that none of those who complain about Donald’s 34 felonies say he is innocent. That Donald is guilty of this and other crimes is a given.
Prosecutorial work began before Trump's attempt at 2024. It happened after Bill Barr took a dump on the Rule of Law and stopped the investigation of election interference after Cohen was prosecuted. Remember that Trump was co-conspirator #1 in that investigation. The crimes happened during Trump's 2016 candidacy.
Can you provide ANY evidence that TFG was already being investigated for crimes [other than tax audits] before announcing his candidacy? I do not remember reading anything about that.
I was going to start my original comment saying I am quibbling, as I get the point of the post, but since you ask for evidence instead of researching yourself, here is some evidence that the election interference case began long before Trump was a candidate.
(Any $ donation you want to make for my going though this labor should be made to this fine substack.)
Here is an article from February 2022 when some prosecutors left the DA’s office because the case, which they had been working on for sometime wasn’t being pursued as they thought it should be. The investigation began under the previous DA Cyrus Vance Jr.
You're ignoring that Trump was a candidate in 2016 and again in 2020. The crimes and investigations happened BEFORE his 2024 candidacy, but not before his 2016 one.
Thank you, Elissalf. I was going to say that I just looked at the news articles that DK Brooklyn provided and do not see any investigations before TFG announced his candidacy in 2015.
You are really being silly and I don’t know what to make of you. The crimes were committed after 2015.
The election interference was when Donald was a candidate in 2016. How could there be an investigation before the crime was committed.
Do you believe that the post was referring to Trump being a candidate in 2016 or 2020? I read it as being a candidate for 2024, not for past candidacies.
Perhaps the writer can clarify.
And Hunter didn’t commit his crime when Joe Biden was president. It was when he was a private citizen.
And don’t forget WHEN MELANIA HAD A BABY DONALD HAD SEX WITH A SEX WORKER.
I reread the post. I will correct myself. Yes, had Trump only paid off a porn star and not been running for president he would not have been charged because it would not have been election interference and not a crime.
Of course if he wasn’t a candidate he would also not bothered to conceal that WHEN MELANIA HAD A BABY HE HAD SEX WITH STORMY D.
Thank you for giving me so many opportunities to make my main point, which isn’t Donald’s crime (most people assume these kind of crimes are run of the mill in politics) but that he is a disgusting person who had sex with a sex worker just after his wife had a baby and then committed crimes to keep it from the voters.
No one can defend that behavior and it was worth $130,000 to try to hide it.
You're a hateful and divisive brainwashed cultist. Go back to Putin and tell him not to pay for your garbage trolling. No one was buying your nonsense.
I know that life isn’t fair, and is sometimes cruel. President Biden’s statement is what brought on the sadness. The crap he has had to wade through, and now this heartbreaking politically motivated hit on his family. Ugh!
Yes, Trump did "pay hush money to a porn star", but from my understanding, it is much more than that. Cooking the books is one level of breaking the law, although it often happens. The difference here is he did this coverup to change the course of the election, and that is a big difference. You need to include that part because it is for that coverup he went to trial. And lost!
As I’ve said repeatedly, to characterize the trial as about “hush money”, as so many in the MSM have, not only misses the point but is factually and *legally* incorrect! Hush money, at least in the State of New York, isn’t a crime, and “cooking the books” to hide it is only a misdemeanor. What made it 34 *felony* accounts is the “furtherance of another crime”, ie attempting to influence an election and hide the paper trial.
I would say that Jay has been fairly good about calling these convictions what they are, ie “election interference”, so I might lighten up on him a *little* bit. Others, however, and many are continuing to refer to it as “hush money to a porn star”, are *only* interested in ad dollars and clickthroughs so they stick with the salacious headline…
Where do you find that I am coming down on Jay and need to "lighten up"? My opening line is "my understanding", which leaves me open to be corrected if I am wrong. As well, it sure seems like you repeated my words, just using different ones.
Thank you Jay, for your analysis. I knew a few reasons why these cases seemed so different to me but you added some more reasons and provided me more specific information about differences that I merely sensed before.
I saw a lot of people in comments on social media making these points in various places but not bringing them together into a coherent argument, so this was my attempt to do so.
As much as I'd like to see the gun show loophole closed, I think I'd like to see them close the "speech and debate / political speech" loophole in the libel and slander laws that allow politicians to continually lie and mislead the electorate with impunity. Since politicians would be required for both rational gun policy and legal consequences to politician who lie, I expect there is zero chance of either happening.
The view of these two cases while extremely different in public’s perception is in fact what justice is all about. Politics may not be blatantly apparent in all judicial decisions but is in fact present in most. Politics means”..the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.”
Power is the goal whether for the lawyers involved or the participants. I’m sorry more for our nations young people to witness such blatant hypocrisy and to know the solution appears out of reach.
This may seem tangential, but your entirely accurate portrayal of the effect of politics on justice is precisely why history needs to be taught unredacted in the classroom. This sort of thing has always gone on, and young people coming through school need to see it with the naked eye rather than through rose colored glasses.
Justice meted out inequitably? I doubt this comes as a surprise to many who have received harsher sentences because of their color, their ethnicity, their poverty, or all of the above.
Oh, I'm sorry precious, you misunderstand - which is completely understandable given the unintelligent ravings that you leave EVERYWHERE. I have absolutely no connection to your politics, I am simply a citizen of an allied nation who is concerned at the way the USA is going because it has a bigger influence on world politics than my own, and the return of fascism is not something I think is a good thing. As for you - it's hard to ignore how obnoxious you are when your constancy and content interrupt pretty much every conversation that people are attempting to have. So, again, I will ask you politely - you have earned you rubles, off you pop, and leave the room to the adults.
Substance use disorder, or addiction, is an illness. Nothing that any of us with these disorders do while under the influence makes sense. Even after we get clean and sober, it's still only one moment, one day at a time. Even more devastating, really, is the impact on loved ones. The addict is anesthetized. The families are simply crushed. I didn't watch the parading of family members and former spouses/lovers forced to testify against Hunter, or for that matter any of the canard, but I do get the love the Bidens consistently show for family despite the tragedies they've endured.
What I want is to see Don Jr. be held accountable as a fellow drug addict with a dozen or more guns who poaches (probably illegally as well) since that's apparently reason for conservatives to get Big Mad 💢 about.
I'd like to see that too! 👀
Another of my old Twitter acquaintances/resistors! Glad to see you!
I agree. This should become a precedent. We should go after every person who lied on their application. Think how many guns we could get off the streets.
💯
The right was never going to be happy with the verdict, no matter which way it went - apparently on the first day they were a hung jury. After the trial some of the jurors stated: "that they felt bad doing so and that the prosecution case seemed aimed 'as much to embarrass as it was to convict,'" or "That juror said that she "wasn't a fan of the prosecution," in large part because aspects of their case, such as highlighting a trove of evidence of drug addiction that far predated the gun purchase, seemed unnecessary even if they were trying to get a point across," and finally “In my opinion, this was a waste of taxpayer dollars,” she said. The juror added that she "didn't want to find him guilty" because the evidence showed "he needed help," but she ultimately voted to convict based on the application of relevant criminal law."
https://www.salon.com/2024/06/12/hunter-biden-juror-says-the-prosecution-was-a-waste-of-taxpayer-dollars/
Yawn. Okay Sergei.
When you’re quoting Dershowitz and Giuliani, you know your argument is weak
Both of them are convicted criminals. Both for being full of shit.
Hogwash. In EVERY one of Trump's four cases, grand juries of our peers saw the evidence and decided that there was enough evidence to warrant a number of felony indictments.
YOUR CHOICE was stripped from you whether to vote for a pussy-grabber that ALSO cheated on his wife while she was still nursing their infant son.
You should be outraged at Trump, not at the justice system.
Well done, comrade! Mother Russia would be proud!
Thank you for comparing the two cases.
The sentencing will further emphasize the contrast between the two cases. If Hunter Biden is sentenced to a full 21 months in prison while Donald Trump receives only probation or a suspended sentence, the perception of an injustice already perpetrated will be heightened considerably. If Hunter Biden's sentence were to be pronounced before July 11, there would almost certainly be a moment of breathless anticipation to see if Trump would likewise receive at least an appropriate sentence, rather than a slap on the wrist.
Isn't the judge in Hunter's case a Cheetolini appointee (i.e. likely an unqualified political hack)??
Michael Cohen was a first time offender and sentenced (in federal court) to 3 years for essentially the same crime as TFG was charged with in state court.
It seems the man who directed and benefited from Cohen’s crime should be sentenced (in state court) to AT LEAST the same amount of time, if only in part because he didn’t pled out (as Cohen did) and forced a trial to determine his guilt.
Also, TFG has violated his gag order at least 10 times. He continues to talk smack and violate his gag order which is still enforce to protect the jurors, court staff, the witnesses, and others. Most defendants are locked up after just one violation. TFG kept pushing the envelope and daring the judge to jail him. I appreciate why Judge Merchan didn’t lock him up during the trial — it would have delayed everything and been a hardship on the jury and others.
TFG has been found guilty and should be held accountable. No one is above the law.
I just want to shout from the roof tops
" I don't give a f#$k about hunter because he isn't running for president. I didn't care about Trump's many frauds until he decided to run for president AND held himself out as somehow less scummy than HRC. "
There is no equivalence. NY indicts for this crime all the time. Apparently the fed rarely indicts for lying on a form gun or otherwise without some intervention first and they definitely don't indict when someone has back taxes that are paid with interest and penalties .
Hunter now has to live with his guilty verdict, politically motivated or not. We have to be ok with that because he is guilty.
But if we are forced to accept one, we , have to accept the other. Looking at you conservatives...
Let's look at this another way.
If Trump's attempt to hide his affairs failed it's possible he wouldn't have become president and he wouldn't have ever been protected by the same immunity which he now seeks. He hid his tax returns because he is a tax cheat, he paid off women because he did have affairs, he is running from the law for fraudulent business practices. Did him running for president accelerate or highlight his crimeyness, maybe. The law was going to be after him regardless.
Dump is a career criminal who has escaped justice over and over again. State and federal justice systems have had decades to go after him.
So Trump has benefited from his privilege and has all this time been subject to the other tier of justice?
What tier of justice is there when it simply doesn’t exist for the dumps of the world?
Two years ago I would agree. Now, with an actual conviction, I still think there are two tiers. And Trump still benefits from the one for special people.
Anyone else would have been remanded after the 2nd set of violations of the gag order in place. at every step he has been afforded unusual leeway.
Yes, there are two tiers. Hearing Blanche argue facts not in the record, testifying for his client while performing direct or cross is wildly prejudicial.
I'm thinking the DA purposefully let some of that stuff go because they knew they had a strong case and it wouldn't matter. It was all smoke. They were right in the short term, let's see if them letting Trump and team have a long rope leads to overturning the verdict or not.
Thanks for stating so eloquently how so many of us feel.
The hypocrisy on the right truly knows no bounds. They’re just trolling the US public with their nonsense.
You write that Donald would have not been prosecuted had he not been running for President, but I believe the prosecutorial work on this began before he was a candidate.
Also, you left out what I want everyone, especially suburban women to remember, Donald’s case flowed from his effort to keep secret from suburban women that WHEN MELANIA HAD A BABY DONALD HAD SEX WITH STORMY D.
It is also worth noting that none of those who complain about Donald’s 34 felonies say he is innocent. That Donald is guilty of this and other crimes is a given.
Prosecutorial work began before Trump's attempt at 2024. It happened after Bill Barr took a dump on the Rule of Law and stopped the investigation of election interference after Cohen was prosecuted. Remember that Trump was co-conspirator #1 in that investigation. The crimes happened during Trump's 2016 candidacy.
Can you provide ANY evidence that TFG was already being investigated for crimes [other than tax audits] before announcing his candidacy? I do not remember reading anything about that.
I was going to start my original comment saying I am quibbling, as I get the point of the post, but since you ask for evidence instead of researching yourself, here is some evidence that the election interference case began long before Trump was a candidate.
(Any $ donation you want to make for my going though this labor should be made to this fine substack.)
Here is an article from February 2022 when some prosecutors left the DA’s office because the case, which they had been working on for sometime wasn’t being pursued as they thought it should be. The investigation began under the previous DA Cyrus Vance Jr.
Trump announced his candidacy in November of 2022
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-manhattan-donald-trump-cyrus-vance-jr-criminal-investigations-18bb6847aeda9536663a6abd73abbf80
Here is an earlier article from when Vance left in 2021. . It says he had been on this case for 2 years.
https://apnews.com/article/business-new-york-manhattan-donald-trump-cyrus-vance-jr-2a8fb1e013858ed5dd1edf4f7096663a
And don’t forget WHEN MELANIA HAD A BABY DONALD HAD SEX WITH A SEX WORKER.
You're ignoring that Trump was a candidate in 2016 and again in 2020. The crimes and investigations happened BEFORE his 2024 candidacy, but not before his 2016 one.
Thank you, Elissalf. I was going to say that I just looked at the news articles that DK Brooklyn provided and do not see any investigations before TFG announced his candidacy in 2015.
You are really being silly and I don’t know what to make of you. The crimes were committed after 2015.
The election interference was when Donald was a candidate in 2016. How could there be an investigation before the crime was committed.
Do you believe that the post was referring to Trump being a candidate in 2016 or 2020? I read it as being a candidate for 2024, not for past candidacies.
Perhaps the writer can clarify.
And Hunter didn’t commit his crime when Joe Biden was president. It was when he was a private citizen.
And don’t forget WHEN MELANIA HAD A BABY DONALD HAD SEX WITH A SEX WORKER.
I reread the post. I will correct myself. Yes, had Trump only paid off a porn star and not been running for president he would not have been charged because it would not have been election interference and not a crime.
Of course if he wasn’t a candidate he would also not bothered to conceal that WHEN MELANIA HAD A BABY HE HAD SEX WITH STORMY D.
Thank you for giving me so many opportunities to make my main point, which isn’t Donald’s crime (most people assume these kind of crimes are run of the mill in politics) but that he is a disgusting person who had sex with a sex worker just after his wife had a baby and then committed crimes to keep it from the voters.
No one can defend that behavior and it was worth $130,000 to try to hide it.
You're a hateful and divisive brainwashed cultist. Go back to Putin and tell him not to pay for your garbage trolling. No one was buying your nonsense.
Зевать. Хорошо, Сергей.
Зевать. Хорошо, Сергей.
This makes me just sad, sad, sad.
I know that life isn’t fair, and is sometimes cruel. President Biden’s statement is what brought on the sadness. The crap he has had to wade through, and now this heartbreaking politically motivated hit on his family. Ugh!
I find it very tragic, too.
Yes, Trump did "pay hush money to a porn star", but from my understanding, it is much more than that. Cooking the books is one level of breaking the law, although it often happens. The difference here is he did this coverup to change the course of the election, and that is a big difference. You need to include that part because it is for that coverup he went to trial. And lost!
As I’ve said repeatedly, to characterize the trial as about “hush money”, as so many in the MSM have, not only misses the point but is factually and *legally* incorrect! Hush money, at least in the State of New York, isn’t a crime, and “cooking the books” to hide it is only a misdemeanor. What made it 34 *felony* accounts is the “furtherance of another crime”, ie attempting to influence an election and hide the paper trial.
I would say that Jay has been fairly good about calling these convictions what they are, ie “election interference”, so I might lighten up on him a *little* bit. Others, however, and many are continuing to refer to it as “hush money to a porn star”, are *only* interested in ad dollars and clickthroughs so they stick with the salacious headline…
Where do you find that I am coming down on Jay and need to "lighten up"? My opening line is "my understanding", which leaves me open to be corrected if I am wrong. As well, it sure seems like you repeated my words, just using different ones.
Very well explained.
Thank you Jay, for your analysis. I knew a few reasons why these cases seemed so different to me but you added some more reasons and provided me more specific information about differences that I merely sensed before.
I saw a lot of people in comments on social media making these points in various places but not bringing them together into a coherent argument, so this was my attempt to do so.
As much as I'd like to see the gun show loophole closed, I think I'd like to see them close the "speech and debate / political speech" loophole in the libel and slander laws that allow politicians to continually lie and mislead the electorate with impunity. Since politicians would be required for both rational gun policy and legal consequences to politician who lie, I expect there is zero chance of either happening.
The view of these two cases while extremely different in public’s perception is in fact what justice is all about. Politics may not be blatantly apparent in all judicial decisions but is in fact present in most. Politics means”..the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.”
Power is the goal whether for the lawyers involved or the participants. I’m sorry more for our nations young people to witness such blatant hypocrisy and to know the solution appears out of reach.
This may seem tangential, but your entirely accurate portrayal of the effect of politics on justice is precisely why history needs to be taught unredacted in the classroom. This sort of thing has always gone on, and young people coming through school need to see it with the naked eye rather than through rose colored glasses.
Justice meted out inequitably? I doubt this comes as a surprise to many who have received harsher sentences because of their color, their ethnicity, their poverty, or all of the above.
Falsification of business records is indeed prosecuted independent of proximity to the WH.
You've earned your rubles. Off you pop.
Sure. The insane babble you spout ain't it.
Oh, I'm sorry precious, you misunderstand - which is completely understandable given the unintelligent ravings that you leave EVERYWHERE. I have absolutely no connection to your politics, I am simply a citizen of an allied nation who is concerned at the way the USA is going because it has a bigger influence on world politics than my own, and the return of fascism is not something I think is a good thing. As for you - it's hard to ignore how obnoxious you are when your constancy and content interrupt pretty much every conversation that people are attempting to have. So, again, I will ask you politely - you have earned you rubles, off you pop, and leave the room to the adults.
Substance use disorder, or addiction, is an illness. Nothing that any of us with these disorders do while under the influence makes sense. Even after we get clean and sober, it's still only one moment, one day at a time. Even more devastating, really, is the impact on loved ones. The addict is anesthetized. The families are simply crushed. I didn't watch the parading of family members and former spouses/lovers forced to testify against Hunter, or for that matter any of the canard, but I do get the love the Bidens consistently show for family despite the tragedies they've endured.