Great interview, thank you. I'd also encourage everyone to check out Ruth's Substack Lucid. It's a great way to stay on top of what's happening with the current state of domestic fascism and authoritarianism and she does frequent Zoom calls with her paid subscribers doing panels and Q&A sessions. I'd list it as informative and helpful as The Big Picture.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt sent legislation to Congress in 1938 to create a commission to investigate the concentrated corporate power with a message that contained the prophetic warning “ownership of Government by a group, or by another controlling power, is fascism” President Roosevelt knew Mussolini’s fascism was based on Corporate power. In fact Mussolini’s PhD thesis was on the subject of corporate State. Mussolini would be impressed by the Fascism of Corporate America.
A sometimes hidden part of history was that the actions in WWII had precedence and did not come from nowhere.
The rhetoric, legislation, and actions in the 1910s included a range of anti-German actions. Those included the Justice Department preparing lists of all German aliens and imprisoning more than 4,000 in 1917–18 on claimed crimes included spying for Germany, or endorsing the German war effort. Thousands were forced to buy war bonds to show their loyalty.
These actions went on even in small town American where my grandfather lived. The American Legion was consulted as a part of Germans seeking U.S. citizenship. The review even appears on my grandfather's court papers for naturalization!
Speaking of polarization, America is not “polarized” as much as it's been “pulled apart” by right-wing factions. The fans at a Yankees vs Red Sox game are divided. Both teams have legitimacy.
Post 9/11, when Americans of all shapes, sizes, stripes and colors flew the flag in solidarity, right-wing coalitions joined forces to tell impressionable Americans “stories” intended to pull them away from the mainstream.
So many joined them, nearly half the country in fact, that it would seem America has become “polarized.”
But poll those who support right-wing “policies” to learn that many of their opinions are largely based on mis- and disinformation.
America is not a polarized country. America has had a large portion of herself pulled away by those with bad faith intentions. America has been “contaminated.”
To declare her polarized lends legitimacy to both sides. One side largely based on untruths could hardly be considered a legitimate equal.
Love Ruth Ben-Ghiat. Thank you for this interview, George. I also loved listening to her interview with Reed Galen recently and wrote about it in my Substack. Authoritarians/Fascist leaders are basically schoolyard bullies grown up. We all know how to deal with bullies. They always eff around and find out! Mussolini found out. Hung by his ankles at a gas station and beaten with baseball bats and sticks until his face was unrecognizable.
It is with awareness that we fight fascism. Prof. Ben-Ghiat made me think of what I had read today about someone in Slovakia who is unhappy with the new Right-wing leader, but she just felt too exhausted to think about it. She just wanted things to be calm. I doubt that is what she is going to get, unless oppressing and jailing people is what she calls calm. This is a time when the youth needs to be very active and basically not accept what is going on. Also, women are in danger in this country. The supreme court ending abortion signaled that.
I am in Germany right now, but keeping up with news in USA, including my local city and neighborhood news. I am around people who have different values than the US Republican party, and it is healthy to go places where people believe that their government should serve them. Not just their government but all the institutions. I read yesterday in the NYT that German Catholics are pressuring the Vatican to accept gay unions, and allow women to preach, and there is a discussion of letting non-celibate men into the church as priests.
People coming together and questioning can make a difference. And yes, the perils are great if we don't we support an unjust status quo, or allow one to grow. I would say that this Pope must be making Opus Dei, and the Federalist Society quite uncomfortable.
America governed by corporate interests is fascism. It’s a fascism that reduced choice and citizenship to be consumers of corporate goods. The fascism of Trump is the reactionary response of those who's interest s were not served by corporate fascism's concentrated wealth. Corporate fascism caused Trump. Until we get at corporate control of both American political parties America will be left with corporate fascism. Bernie Sanders fight was against corporate fascism. Corporate America labelled him as a populist. And America bought that corporate lie. Shame on America.
Agree mostly, but I'm not sure about America buying into the corporate populism lie. Bernie had Ms. Clinton on the ropes for the 2016 nomination; the DNC put their thumb on the scale to give it to Hilary. If Bernie had run against rump, Bernie would have beaten him (and January 6th would have taken place in 2017 instead of 2021).
As I read this, I was reminded of the NRA & 2A advocates who say we can’t take their guns when guns are the leading cause of death across the country. We need to pry the guns out of their cold, dead hands so we aren’t all killed fighting for democracy!
An old friend asked me yesterday, if I've learned anything from the past 8 years of Trump and MAGA? I had to think for a moment, and then it came to me. I now understand how Hitler took over and ruled a sopohisticated, educated country.
For perhaps the first time in history, a witch hunt has found an actual witch. One hopes that our American version of kindling is going to pile up well.
The ironic thing is that those folks supporting trump are of a mind with those who actually believed witches of the past existed, and supported witch hunts as the righteous thing to do.
Great interview, thank you. I'd also encourage everyone to check out Ruth's Substack Lucid. It's a great way to stay on top of what's happening with the current state of domestic fascism and authoritarianism and she does frequent Zoom calls with her paid subscribers doing panels and Q&A sessions. I'd list it as informative and helpful as The Big Picture.
I agree. She is doing very important work.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt sent legislation to Congress in 1938 to create a commission to investigate the concentrated corporate power with a message that contained the prophetic warning “ownership of Government by a group, or by another controlling power, is fascism” President Roosevelt knew Mussolini’s fascism was based on Corporate power. In fact Mussolini’s PhD thesis was on the subject of corporate State. Mussolini would be impressed by the Fascism of Corporate America.
This is a good point. Trump and his wannabes are not solitary demigods. They do others' bidding.
The Corporate DNC preferred there be a President Trump than a President Sanders. SANDERS was the only candidate fighting the Corporate fascism.
"Americans are particularly prone to the 'it can't happen here' syndrome."
Which brings up what I call the YICHH Factor. Yes It Can Happen Here. Yichh!
I have personally experienced it happening here.
A sometimes hidden part of history was that the actions in WWII had precedence and did not come from nowhere.
The rhetoric, legislation, and actions in the 1910s included a range of anti-German actions. Those included the Justice Department preparing lists of all German aliens and imprisoning more than 4,000 in 1917–18 on claimed crimes included spying for Germany, or endorsing the German war effort. Thousands were forced to buy war bonds to show their loyalty.
These actions went on even in small town American where my grandfather lived. The American Legion was consulted as a part of Germans seeking U.S. citizenship. The review even appears on my grandfather's court papers for naturalization!
Speaking of polarization, America is not “polarized” as much as it's been “pulled apart” by right-wing factions. The fans at a Yankees vs Red Sox game are divided. Both teams have legitimacy.
Post 9/11, when Americans of all shapes, sizes, stripes and colors flew the flag in solidarity, right-wing coalitions joined forces to tell impressionable Americans “stories” intended to pull them away from the mainstream.
So many joined them, nearly half the country in fact, that it would seem America has become “polarized.”
But poll those who support right-wing “policies” to learn that many of their opinions are largely based on mis- and disinformation.
America is not a polarized country. America has had a large portion of herself pulled away by those with bad faith intentions. America has been “contaminated.”
To declare her polarized lends legitimacy to both sides. One side largely based on untruths could hardly be considered a legitimate equal.
Love Ruth Ben-Ghiat. Thank you for this interview, George. I also loved listening to her interview with Reed Galen recently and wrote about it in my Substack. Authoritarians/Fascist leaders are basically schoolyard bullies grown up. We all know how to deal with bullies. They always eff around and find out! Mussolini found out. Hung by his ankles at a gas station and beaten with baseball bats and sticks until his face was unrecognizable.
By the way, here is the link to my summary of/commentary on Ruth's interview by Reed Galen: https://open.substack.com/pub/garycottingham/p/are-americans-in-denial-about-the?r=2sjvnr&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
It is with awareness that we fight fascism. Prof. Ben-Ghiat made me think of what I had read today about someone in Slovakia who is unhappy with the new Right-wing leader, but she just felt too exhausted to think about it. She just wanted things to be calm. I doubt that is what she is going to get, unless oppressing and jailing people is what she calls calm. This is a time when the youth needs to be very active and basically not accept what is going on. Also, women are in danger in this country. The supreme court ending abortion signaled that.
Vigilance and engagement is what we need. The perils are great.
I am in Germany right now, but keeping up with news in USA, including my local city and neighborhood news. I am around people who have different values than the US Republican party, and it is healthy to go places where people believe that their government should serve them. Not just their government but all the institutions. I read yesterday in the NYT that German Catholics are pressuring the Vatican to accept gay unions, and allow women to preach, and there is a discussion of letting non-celibate men into the church as priests.
https://www.dw.com/en/german-cardinal-says-priests-should-be-allowed-to-marry/a-60639526
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pope-francis-signals-open-blessing-same-sex-unions-catholic-priests-rcna118525
People coming together and questioning can make a difference. And yes, the perils are great if we don't we support an unjust status quo, or allow one to grow. I would say that this Pope must be making Opus Dei, and the Federalist Society quite uncomfortable.
America governed by corporate interests is fascism. It’s a fascism that reduced choice and citizenship to be consumers of corporate goods. The fascism of Trump is the reactionary response of those who's interest s were not served by corporate fascism's concentrated wealth. Corporate fascism caused Trump. Until we get at corporate control of both American political parties America will be left with corporate fascism. Bernie Sanders fight was against corporate fascism. Corporate America labelled him as a populist. And America bought that corporate lie. Shame on America.
Agree mostly, but I'm not sure about America buying into the corporate populism lie. Bernie had Ms. Clinton on the ropes for the 2016 nomination; the DNC put their thumb on the scale to give it to Hilary. If Bernie had run against rump, Bernie would have beaten him (and January 6th would have taken place in 2017 instead of 2021).
Asserting the rule of law in the face of hatred and violence is what will be necessary. That’s where the buck will stop.
As I read this, I was reminded of the NRA & 2A advocates who say we can’t take their guns when guns are the leading cause of death across the country. We need to pry the guns out of their cold, dead hands so we aren’t all killed fighting for democracy!
Thank you for a very informative, and while scary, I think hopeful discussion.
Well, this was certainly a sobering and depressing read.
An old friend asked me yesterday, if I've learned anything from the past 8 years of Trump and MAGA? I had to think for a moment, and then it came to me. I now understand how Hitler took over and ruled a sopohisticated, educated country.
For perhaps the first time in history, a witch hunt has found an actual witch. One hopes that our American version of kindling is going to pile up well.
The ironic thing is that those folks supporting trump are of a mind with those who actually believed witches of the past existed, and supported witch hunts as the righteous thing to do.
Yes!!!
The Party Of The Don
And MagAmerica First jerked and stalled
It's Base Agenda ..No Check at All
The Economy hobbled . .becuz It's
Just a local squabble! . and The Left with
a "Churchill" really a NeoNazi! operator naively Enthralled ..
# And His Savvy Czar Star Pal . .
"Authoritarians do their best to get us to feel that it is hopeless to resist, ...." Made me think of the Borg in Star Trek: Resistance is futile.