With some on the left already predicting a Biden loss to Trump in 2024, it's important to remember the President's strengths heading into election season.
Why accept right-wing framing on anything? It rises from the depraved media political world that drives MAGA and pushes 'reality politics' - where facts don't matter. They push narratives of convenience, like the 'red wave' that never showed. Truth is: a man indicted or jailed isn't getting elected president, Trump is taking down the whole party with him by his failures and the country is far better off because Joe Biden is president.
Aha! Found it. I was agreeing with Wes, and I was focusing on his statement "Why accept right-wing framing on anything? It rises from the depraved media political world that drives MAGA and pushes 'reality politics' - where facts don't matter."
“With some on the left already predicting a Biden loss to Trump..”
Those people are not on the left. They like to claim they are, but it’s clear they hold *exactly* the same views as the MAGA right.
They can’t come out and admit they support Trump. Then the lie that they’re progressives interested in democracy would be exposed. So they claim instead things like “Democrats are just as bad”, “both parties are the same”, “Cornell West is a legitimate candidate and not someone we promote to help Trump win.” and use those to undermine any opposition to Trump.
Unfortunately Cornel West will be de-legitimized by the establishment media by vicious slurs as Socialist enemy, pie- in- the-sky academic, and no political environment savvy. Mark my words!!
In 2016, I *really* liked Bernie, liked a lot of what Jill Stein had to say, too. But, I knew that Hillary had the experience, so, even though she wasn’t my favorite, I voted for her. Unfortunately, too many voters didn’t like Hillary, so they either voted for Bernie or Jill, or they didn’t vote at all. And tRump became president, the least qualified, the least interested in doing the job. And we were stuck with him for 4 years. So, go ahead, vote for Cornel West. Or RFK Jr. And put tRump back in the White House. At least you can feel pleased that you “voted your *conscience*!”
They claim they want things to be better. But that’s less important to them than being smugly self-righteous.
Rather than make progress towards what they claim they want, like whiny toddlers, if the can’t get absolutely 100% of what they want then they vote to make things worse for themselves and others. Then swaddle themselves in the belief that somehow that makes them morally superior.
Voting is not finding a valentine, it’s taking the bus.
No bus is going to take you right to your own doorstep, so you take the one that gets you closest to your destination.
No politician is going to be exactly what you want, so you vote for the one *that has a chance of winning* and is closest to what you want.
The fact of reality is, it’s going to come down to Biden or Trump. A vote for anyone else, much as you may not like the fact, is a vote thrown away because nobody else has any chance of actually being elected president.
Biden is the bus that gets you closest to home. Maybe not as close as you’d like, but at least he gets you closer to home. Not voting for Biden is affectively a vote for Trump. It would be you saying that rather than getting close to home you’d rather be taken miles in the opposite direction.
I disagree. There is always a clear distinction between the candidates, and it’s not just some minor degree of how “evil” they are.
Only if you accept the lie of “both sides” that’s (unfortunately) pushed by our media could you see Biden/Trump, Trump/Clinton, Obama/McCain or any other recent pairing as being nearly indistinguishable pairs.
I’d take an actual orange over the Orange Fascist. Literally. No laws would get signed since an orange can’t possibly function as President, but there’s also be nobody in the office to try to turn the Justice Dept into the Gestapo.
But the fact of reality is the person elected in 2024 will be either the Democratic nominee (Biden) or the Republican nominee (presumably Trump). One of those two. There is no third party candidate who has any chance of winning. None. Simply not going to happen. The ONLY thing someone other then the two can do is act as spoiler.
So anyone who runs to Biden’s left (Williamson, Kennedy, West, other) is doing so to get Trump elected. They’ll claim otherwise, but they’d be lying.
Wow, you are self-righteous. I am not a “leftest” as you say , I am a socialist, and I wouldn’t say that Donald Trump is a republican, he’s an idiot, and follows the far right. The one thing the far left and the far right agree on is that our government is broken.
I’m asking what I asked: Who would you want to vote for?
Because whoever it is, if they’re not the Democratic or Republican nominee, they have absolutely no chance of winning. And, while it may not be the way we want the world to be, that is the is the way it is.
The only thing voting for somebody on the left other than Biden will do is, by removing a vote from Biden, making it more likely Trump will win. (And the same holds true for those voting for somebody on the right other than Trump. It makes it more likely Trump will lose.)
For example, voting for Stein would be a vote that doesn’t end up going to Biden. Meaning one vote less that Trump would need to win. So the result of voting for Stein is just to make it more likely the main candidate most UNlike her will win.
If, for example, Stein were your candidate a choice, then knowing that she is NOT going to win, is Trump really your second choice for who you want to see elected?
I call bs, while politics is like a circle, the far left and the far right, on one side of the circle, and the dems and rep, meet on the other side. I would say it’s the libertarians and maybe the MAGA joining. The far left would include DSA, Green, maybe parts of the workers party. We believe trump has a screw lose, kind the way Bernie Sanders is viewed by the right. We of coarse would not vote for trump. But we also have a big problem with Democratic Party, they say they are the party of the people, but they are corporate puppets, so many of us will not vote for joe Biden or some democrats. Does that mean we are voting trump into office, only if the Democrats don’t put him in jail first.
Whatever our preferences, whatever our wish for a third party candidate, the fact of American politics is that it’s going to come down to a choice between the Democratic and Republican nominees.
No third party candidate has any real chance of winning even a single electoral vote, let alone the election. The ONLY thing they will do is drain votes from whichever if the two main candidates they are most like, increasing the chances the one they are least like will win.
Let’s say Stein is your preferred candidate. She won’t win and your vote for her only makes it more likely Trump will. If you can’t have Stein is Trump really your second choice?
My outlook is different, if you don’t vote for change it will never happen. We as a nation have lost the ability to look to future, generations away. If we allow the current dem or rep parties to run the show, there may not be the need to look forward several generations.
It’s a fair question: If, as a practical, pragmatic matter, we always end up voting for one of the two main candidates, then how do we get anything to change?
The answer is to be engaged, not just anround election day. To be in contact (yes, particularly as elections approach and they’re more likely to listen, but also year round) with your representatives at all levels, Congress, state legislatures, etc. To make sure they’re aware of what you want, and to make sure they face *viable* opponents during primaries so that either they move their positions closer to yours or get replaced by someone who already shares yours.
Yes, it’s a long, slow slog that takes a lot of unrelenting work, but it’s the only way to do it. Continuing to vote for a third party candidate who has no chance of winning while not laying the ground work that makes actual change possible is, well, “the definition of insanity”.
My writing and talking to my representatives is a daily activity. I have run for a government position. And through this I see that campaign finance has only gotten worse, I am aware that my voice means something to those who represent me, I am also aware that corporations talk much louder. I may be insane, it’s the price I pay.
Then good for you. I wish more people showed that level of involvement.
But while you are putting in the effort to work for the changes you want, it still doesn’t change the fact that, for now, you’re going to be facing a choice between Biden and Trump. And not voting for one *IS* a vote for the other.
As far as US Elections go there is ONLY ONE THING THAT MATTERS - the designed-in-the-18th-Century MAGA-friendly Electoral College. So can we keep the focus on that instead of all the wasted initial verbiage on %age polls. 51% - 47% blah blah blah?
I'm truly baffled that Trump is even a candidate, with the third clause of the Fourteenth Amendment appearing to disqualify him from holding any public office. Even if some people want to deny that he engaged in an insurrection or coup attempt, he has publicly called for termination of the Constitution that he vowed to uphold and defend. How is that not recognized as having, "... engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereo?"
Then that makes you part of the problem. I would vote to have Mr. West become part of President Biden's cabinet/staff/advisors...whatever. I would welcome his knowledge and input. But he has NO CHANCE of being elected, but EVERY CHANCE of taking votes away from where they are needed.
Yes I am part of the Democratic Party’s problem, people they should be concerned with, but they aren’t. So I will continue to be a problem. And if you think that letting the environmental catastrophe happen, you are maybe my problem.
If you paid ANY attention at all, you'd know that it's Republican blockage that's to blame. If YOU would vote D across the board, as those of us who care about things like our planet do, we would have a Congress working toward averting any coming catastrophes. But when you vote R, or Indie, you're voting against your own best interests, and the interests of all the rest of us. I don't understand how a seemingly intelligent person doesn't SEE this!!
By just mentioning Manchin, you're showing how little you know. Time for you to do some serious homework, my friend. I'm in Ohio, and I would put Manchin in the same category as our jd vance. Grifters with a talent for stealing your money while you smile and fawn over them.
I mean it’s hard to dismiss trump. Biden misses one point he has not declared a environmental emergency Will he wait until he needs the vote? Even if he does , how watered down, how many loopholes. This is my prime concern.
Also he could take a much stronger stance on guns, he could demand people making above $125,000 to pay more into social security. But why kid myself, he is in his position to keep the rich, rich and screw the future of the world. We can just blow it up with all the money put into the defense department. I will not vote for Biden, because he’s Biden and DMC is rotten to the core.
You may think I know nothing of government (bs/poly sci)and the fact is I have no idea, what is going on in DC. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who does.
Exactly my thoughts. Of course it’s fuckin “the lesser evil” once again folks! So we’re trading an overtly compromised shithead with one of the weakest presidents ever, and though day to day economics may show somewhat meager increases in fluxing economic indices, this present administration will strictly follow party line in throwing few carrots to the suffering public, and guaranteeing the elite increasing wealth and capital predation here and foreign markets. Count on it!!
Biden's winning is not by any means a sure thing. (One should never underestimate the malevolence or lawlessness of modern Republicans or the stupidity of people who would vote for them.) So we certainly shouldn't take it for granted and should work hard to make it happen. But the odds certainly aren't looking at all good for Trump.
But, as you are well aware, voting for someone like Marianne Williamson or Cornell West is effectively voting for Trump. Hopefully you’re not planning on that.
You sound like my brother, he’s a smart guy, was a Republican from the 70’s (military) after many questionable decisions the republicans made, post 2000, he became a staunch Democrat. And we don’t alway see eye to eye, as he is die-hard.
The success in key states in 2022 was due in large part to community organizing over the past several years. These groups reach out to potential voters year-round, engaging them in local issues to get connected to their community and to have a sense of agency if they win a local fight. If any of your readers are interested in supporting these groups you can find local ones through the Movement Voter Project and ithrough America Votes, both umbrella groups that support local communities.
You say no politician is going to give you exactly what you want, so vote for the one with the best chance at winning. What kind of bullshit argument is that?
Why accept right-wing framing on anything? It rises from the depraved media political world that drives MAGA and pushes 'reality politics' - where facts don't matter. They push narratives of convenience, like the 'red wave' that never showed. Truth is: a man indicted or jailed isn't getting elected president, Trump is taking down the whole party with him by his failures and the country is far better off because Joe Biden is president.
Exactly right!
Which is actually right David? My self (Loren or Wes)
Aha! Found it. I was agreeing with Wes, and I was focusing on his statement "Why accept right-wing framing on anything? It rises from the depraved media political world that drives MAGA and pushes 'reality politics' - where facts don't matter."
I don't seem to be able to navigate back to see the comments that you are referring to, so I don't know the answer to your question. Sorry.
The fact that trump is not in jail, shows a lack of credibility of the justice system and the Democrats.
Vote OUT and Excise, the "MAGA-Mega-Fascism-Malignancy", with a "Trumpectomy in 2024"....
My (BioMedical/BioPolitical!) NGO, assigned Trump the (nick!)name, of "Faux-President/Dictator-WannaBe Don(ny!) FascisTanTrum(p!)"....(!)
“With some on the left already predicting a Biden loss to Trump..”
Those people are not on the left. They like to claim they are, but it’s clear they hold *exactly* the same views as the MAGA right.
They can’t come out and admit they support Trump. Then the lie that they’re progressives interested in democracy would be exposed. So they claim instead things like “Democrats are just as bad”, “both parties are the same”, “Cornell West is a legitimate candidate and not someone we promote to help Trump win.” and use those to undermine any opposition to Trump.
I'm hearing it from some on the center-left as well. So, felt it was time to nip it in the bud!
The river of force, that is referred to is our young Stephen out of the vote, as they see no future.
Unfortunately Cornel West will be de-legitimized by the establishment media by vicious slurs as Socialist enemy, pie- in- the-sky academic, and no political environment savvy. Mark my words!!
In other words, by the truth.
He has no campaign infrastructure, no broadly appealing message, no chance at all of winning.
The ONLY thing he could accomplish is to pull votes from Biden. And he is smart enough to know that.
So if he continues it’s clear that harming Biden and increasing the chances of a win for Trump is his true goal.
No, the slogan will be "A vote for Cornel West is a vote for Donald Trump!"
You can try shame me , but Joe Biden has not earned my vote.
In 2016, I *really* liked Bernie, liked a lot of what Jill Stein had to say, too. But, I knew that Hillary had the experience, so, even though she wasn’t my favorite, I voted for her. Unfortunately, too many voters didn’t like Hillary, so they either voted for Bernie or Jill, or they didn’t vote at all. And tRump became president, the least qualified, the least interested in doing the job. And we were stuck with him for 4 years. So, go ahead, vote for Cornel West. Or RFK Jr. And put tRump back in the White House. At least you can feel pleased that you “voted your *conscience*!”
They claim they want things to be better. But that’s less important to them than being smugly self-righteous.
Rather than make progress towards what they claim they want, like whiny toddlers, if the can’t get absolutely 100% of what they want then they vote to make things worse for themselves and others. Then swaddle themselves in the belief that somehow that makes them morally superior.
Voting is not finding a valentine, it’s taking the bus.
No bus is going to take you right to your own doorstep, so you take the one that gets you closest to your destination.
No politician is going to be exactly what you want, so you vote for the one *that has a chance of winning* and is closest to what you want.
The fact of reality is, it’s going to come down to Biden or Trump. A vote for anyone else, much as you may not like the fact, is a vote thrown away because nobody else has any chance of actually being elected president.
Biden is the bus that gets you closest to home. Maybe not as close as you’d like, but at least he gets you closer to home. Not voting for Biden is affectively a vote for Trump. It would be you saying that rather than getting close to home you’d rather be taken miles in the opposite direction.
Well put.
In most democracies, it's rare to find a truly inspiring candidate. Most of the time it's "Let's vote for the least evil candidate". This is reality.
I disagree. There is always a clear distinction between the candidates, and it’s not just some minor degree of how “evil” they are.
Only if you accept the lie of “both sides” that’s (unfortunately) pushed by our media could you see Biden/Trump, Trump/Clinton, Obama/McCain or any other recent pairing as being nearly indistinguishable pairs.
Just remember
Ceterum censeo Trumpismus esse delendam
So forget about Cornel West, RFK etc etc and focus.
I’d take an actual orange over the Orange Fascist. Literally. No laws would get signed since an orange can’t possibly function as President, but there’s also be nobody in the office to try to turn the Justice Dept into the Gestapo.
But the fact of reality is the person elected in 2024 will be either the Democratic nominee (Biden) or the Republican nominee (presumably Trump). One of those two. There is no third party candidate who has any chance of winning. None. Simply not going to happen. The ONLY thing someone other then the two can do is act as spoiler.
So anyone who runs to Biden’s left (Williamson, Kennedy, West, other) is doing so to get Trump elected. They’ll claim otherwise, but they’d be lying.
Wow, you are self-righteous. I am not a “leftest” as you say , I am a socialist, and I wouldn’t say that Donald Trump is a republican, he’s an idiot, and follows the far right. The one thing the far left and the far right agree on is that our government is broken.
So, if the election were held today, as a non-leftist socialist, who would you vote for? Genuinely curious.
Are you asking as if I could vote for anyone or the candidates currently running?
I’m asking what I asked: Who would you want to vote for?
Because whoever it is, if they’re not the Democratic or Republican nominee, they have absolutely no chance of winning. And, while it may not be the way we want the world to be, that is the is the way it is.
The only thing voting for somebody on the left other than Biden will do is, by removing a vote from Biden, making it more likely Trump will win. (And the same holds true for those voting for somebody on the right other than Trump. It makes it more likely Trump will lose.)
For example, voting for Stein would be a vote that doesn’t end up going to Biden. Meaning one vote less that Trump would need to win. So the result of voting for Stein is just to make it more likely the main candidate most UNlike her will win.
If, for example, Stein were your candidate a choice, then knowing that she is NOT going to win, is Trump really your second choice for who you want to see elected?
I call bs, while politics is like a circle, the far left and the far right, on one side of the circle, and the dems and rep, meet on the other side. I would say it’s the libertarians and maybe the MAGA joining. The far left would include DSA, Green, maybe parts of the workers party. We believe trump has a screw lose, kind the way Bernie Sanders is viewed by the right. We of coarse would not vote for trump. But we also have a big problem with Democratic Party, they say they are the party of the people, but they are corporate puppets, so many of us will not vote for joe Biden or some democrats. Does that mean we are voting trump into office, only if the Democrats don’t put him in jail first.
“Does that mean we are voting trump into office “
YES, that’s exactly what it means.
Whatever our preferences, whatever our wish for a third party candidate, the fact of American politics is that it’s going to come down to a choice between the Democratic and Republican nominees.
No third party candidate has any real chance of winning even a single electoral vote, let alone the election. The ONLY thing they will do is drain votes from whichever if the two main candidates they are most like, increasing the chances the one they are least like will win.
Let’s say Stein is your preferred candidate. She won’t win and your vote for her only makes it more likely Trump will. If you can’t have Stein is Trump really your second choice?
My outlook is different, if you don’t vote for change it will never happen. We as a nation have lost the ability to look to future, generations away. If we allow the current dem or rep parties to run the show, there may not be the need to look forward several generations.
It’s a fair question: If, as a practical, pragmatic matter, we always end up voting for one of the two main candidates, then how do we get anything to change?
The answer is to be engaged, not just anround election day. To be in contact (yes, particularly as elections approach and they’re more likely to listen, but also year round) with your representatives at all levels, Congress, state legislatures, etc. To make sure they’re aware of what you want, and to make sure they face *viable* opponents during primaries so that either they move their positions closer to yours or get replaced by someone who already shares yours.
Yes, it’s a long, slow slog that takes a lot of unrelenting work, but it’s the only way to do it. Continuing to vote for a third party candidate who has no chance of winning while not laying the ground work that makes actual change possible is, well, “the definition of insanity”.
My writing and talking to my representatives is a daily activity. I have run for a government position. And through this I see that campaign finance has only gotten worse, I am aware that my voice means something to those who represent me, I am also aware that corporations talk much louder. I may be insane, it’s the price I pay.
Then good for you. I wish more people showed that level of involvement.
But while you are putting in the effort to work for the changes you want, it still doesn’t change the fact that, for now, you’re going to be facing a choice between Biden and Trump. And not voting for one *IS* a vote for the other.
A Winning Change
Everyone talktalked about the weather . .
Idle chatter that kind of kept folks together
Then more and more mentioned . .The Future
might be in Question . .and the Young, Uprising
became a River like Force for The Better
#In The Wind .. .
Oooh, nice one!
As far as US Elections go there is ONLY ONE THING THAT MATTERS - the designed-in-the-18th-Century MAGA-friendly Electoral College. So can we keep the focus on that instead of all the wasted initial verbiage on %age polls. 51% - 47% blah blah blah?
I'm determined to feel hopeful!!
Joe Biden can ride a bike on the beach at 80. tfg has to ride his golf cart on the green to make a putt.
I'm truly baffled that Trump is even a candidate, with the third clause of the Fourteenth Amendment appearing to disqualify him from holding any public office. Even if some people want to deny that he engaged in an insurrection or coup attempt, he has publicly called for termination of the Constitution that he vowed to uphold and defend. How is that not recognized as having, "... engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereo?"
I honestly don't understand.
Yes, I’ll be voting for Cornell West.
Then that makes you part of the problem. I would vote to have Mr. West become part of President Biden's cabinet/staff/advisors...whatever. I would welcome his knowledge and input. But he has NO CHANCE of being elected, but EVERY CHANCE of taking votes away from where they are needed.
Yes I am part of the Democratic Party’s problem, people they should be concerned with, but they aren’t. So I will continue to be a problem. And if you think that letting the environmental catastrophe happen, you are maybe my problem.
If you paid ANY attention at all, you'd know that it's Republican blockage that's to blame. If YOU would vote D across the board, as those of us who care about things like our planet do, we would have a Congress working toward averting any coming catastrophes. But when you vote R, or Indie, you're voting against your own best interests, and the interests of all the rest of us. I don't understand how a seemingly intelligent person doesn't SEE this!!
Oh come on, do you believe that? What about people like joe Manchin ?
By just mentioning Manchin, you're showing how little you know. Time for you to do some serious homework, my friend. I'm in Ohio, and I would put Manchin in the same category as our jd vance. Grifters with a talent for stealing your money while you smile and fawn over them.
I mean it’s hard to dismiss trump. Biden misses one point he has not declared a environmental emergency Will he wait until he needs the vote? Even if he does , how watered down, how many loopholes. This is my prime concern.
Also he could take a much stronger stance on guns, he could demand people making above $125,000 to pay more into social security. But why kid myself, he is in his position to keep the rich, rich and screw the future of the world. We can just blow it up with all the money put into the defense department. I will not vote for Biden, because he’s Biden and DMC is rotten to the core.
“I will not vote for Biden, because... I’m an idiot for whom whining and repeating lies is more important than actually getting what I claim I want.”
There. FTFY.
"...And I have no idea how legislating actually works and if I don't get exactly what I want..." It's all as tiresome as it is ridiculous.
Tiresome, ridiculous, predictable. All of those.
You may think I know nothing of government (bs/poly sci)and the fact is I have no idea, what is going on in DC. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who does.
The hurt so much
Exactly my thoughts. Of course it’s fuckin “the lesser evil” once again folks! So we’re trading an overtly compromised shithead with one of the weakest presidents ever, and though day to day economics may show somewhat meager increases in fluxing economic indices, this present administration will strictly follow party line in throwing few carrots to the suffering public, and guaranteeing the elite increasing wealth and capital predation here and foreign markets. Count on it!!
Trump was the “lesser evil” in 2016. Hope those people learned their lesson!
“Trump was the “lesser evil” in 2016.”
Compared to whom? Mussolini?
To those voters who “just didn’t like Hillary!”
"Just didn't like her" isn't the same as "the greater evil".
Anyone who viewed (or views) Trump as "the lesser evil" is an idiot.
I voted for her and I wasn’t surprised she lost, just as I will not be surprised to see biden lose.
Then you’re not one of the people I’m referring to, are you? A vote against Biden is a vote for Trump regardless of the candidate.
Biden's winning is not by any means a sure thing. (One should never underestimate the malevolence or lawlessness of modern Republicans or the stupidity of people who would vote for them.) So we certainly shouldn't take it for granted and should work hard to make it happen. But the odds certainly aren't looking at all good for Trump.
I won’t be voting for trump.
Good for you.
But, as you are well aware, voting for someone like Marianne Williamson or Cornell West is effectively voting for Trump. Hopefully you’re not planning on that.
Not arguing your point but there were people who voted Democrat in previous elections who did think exactly that!
I happen to know a few.
I’m confused...how is Biden one of the weakest presidents ever?
This is a fluff piece for Biden, do you accept it as level journalism?
You can keep telling yourself that, but it remains simply not true.
Do you really draw more satisfaction from misrepresenting things than from having your life improved?
An excellent point , it’s a social construct that almost always predetermines that you will end up in the same or poorer then parents.
So you aren't voting? Just asking.
DMC? That’s a rap group!
Yes, yes my apologies to DMC. I was referring to the DNC
You sound like my brother, he’s a smart guy, was a Republican from the 70’s (military) after many questionable decisions the republicans made, post 2000, he became a staunch Democrat. And we don’t alway see eye to eye, as he is die-hard.
More rotten than the RNC?
I don’t know what you want me to say, check with me next October. There is plenty of other things to protest against!
Not sure what you want me to say , let’s wait till next October.
Well tell your democratic representatives to put him in jail
The success in key states in 2022 was due in large part to community organizing over the past several years. These groups reach out to potential voters year-round, engaging them in local issues to get connected to their community and to have a sense of agency if they win a local fight. If any of your readers are interested in supporting these groups you can find local ones through the Movement Voter Project and ithrough America Votes, both umbrella groups that support local communities.
You say no politician is going to give you exactly what you want, so vote for the one with the best chance at winning. What kind of bullshit argument is that?
Yes, fluff piece for biden